Home Forums MTHFR Support Forum Ask a Practitioner (closed) Optimal supplementation and food for methylation

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  • Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    What is the easiest way to figure out the minimal effective dose of supplementation and dietary change to adjust for the following genetics?

    It seems that I have minor defects, but nothing serious. All other things being equal, I would love to take ZERO supplements and get everything from food. Second best option is just taking one or two.

    I think I am currently covered on all key fronts (B1, B12, B6 and Folate) from food, but I am open-minded of trying supplementing. Is B Complex Plus by Pure Encapsulations is the best way to go or is it possible to come up with a more customized approach (avoid some and only take some)?

    How do I go about figuring out the optimal minimal possible combination in under 30 minutes of research?

    Thank you for your help!

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    I did my own analysis based on this
    http://geneticgenie.org/all-mutations/

    Here are the conclusions.

    Summary:
    – Trouble handling methyl donors (VDR+COMT)
    – 30%+ odds of decreased BH4 (Tetrahydrobiopterin) -> increased ammonia
    – Bad conversion of homocysteine to methionine
    – Avoid B6 (and B6?) (CBS A360A) http://mthfr.net/forums/topic/cbs-a360a-conflicting-info-re-b6/
    – Dopamine & nopirenphrine – unclear
    – Folate / folic acid – unclear

    Actions:
    – B12: Hydroxocobalin or cyanocobalamin
    – Some form of folate (not folic acid, but not methyl) on folate: http://mthfr.net/l-methylfolate-methylfolate-5-mthf/2012/04/05/
    – BH4 supplement

    However, I am about the following:
    1. Is it better to go with B12 Hydroxocobalin or cyanocobalamin (methyl is not an option as I don’t handle methyl groups well);
    2. Is it better to take only B12 or folate as well? If folate as well, then what is the best form for me? I seem to need it as I don’t convert 5-methylfolate (5MTHF) to tetrahydrofolate (THF) very well. But at the same time I cannot take methylfolate (methyl is not an option as I don’t handle methyl groups well). What is the sollution?
    3. Should I do anything in case my BH4 is indeed decreased (which is possible). What exactly and why?

    Istvan
    Participant
    Post count: 136

    Hi Jack!

    You are taking the wrong approach. You cannot figure the correct dosage for the body’s needs. People who take thyroid medications need a long way until they find the right dosage and the adjustment is done by a health practitioner. It is the same story with supplements to support methylation.

    Looking at your results you are better off than most people who come here and we arrived to another important factor again.
    How is you health? Do you have any health conditions or just curious to maximize your or your family’s health?

    I’m not against experimentation, but you have to realize that you cannot determine an effective dose without experimenting and doing lab results, to see where those vitamin etc. leves are. That’s why we have practitioners listed because they are familiar with the polymorphisms and know how, when and what an individual has to take.

    The supplement you are talking about looks promising to me. We usually recommend Dr. Ben Lynch’s supplements (http://www.seekinghealth.com/b-complex-supplement.html) for the price/benefit you will get.

    As for the genome blueprint, if you do have health problems then you need to look into B12 deficiency, sex hormone imbalance, vitamin D deficiency and stomach acid problems.

    If you follow a healthy diet it’s going to be fine (based on your results). What I see MTRRA66G homozygous which is a B12 transport gene so you should consider some extra B12 support.

    If you look around on the website I linked, you will find liposomal methylfolate and methylcobalamin which would be more readily absorbable for a person with digestive problems.

    Hope this helps!

    Istvan
    Participant
    Post count: 136

    Long time ago on PhoenixRising.me believed that if you have COMT polymorhpisms (especially without having polymorphisms in the VDR gene meaning it’s -/-) then methylfolate could be too harsh on these individuals and hydroxocobalamin could be their best bet.
    This has never been proven though.

    I have talked with a highly respected member on the PR.me forum and he explained how hydroxocobalamin will help a person the first week or two, and then it slowly starts to turn things around and destroy the myelin sheath.
    To be honest with you, if you are very sensitive to methyl supplements then opening the capsule, leaving just a tiny bit of powder and pouring out most of it, putting the capsule back together and giving it a try is a way to determine your individual needs and go from there.

    If you cannot afford to work with a practitioner and you are desperate, then I understand. Otherwise I don’t recommend doing so. I’ve developed panic disorder from an amino acid and it was a valuable lesson to be cautious when it comes to supplementation. I trust the practitioner that knows my genetics and have other lab tests, so he/she can determine what do I need for my body to function optimally.

    Think I answered your first question, so onto your second one. You need folate for B12 to work. The two should be supplemented together. That’s what MTHFR is about, it limits the enzyme to make B12 and folate efficiently. Like I said, you must work with a practitioner. If you are that sick then you cannot afford to risk your health to deteriorate even more.
    If you cannot afford to work with a practitioner let me know and we will figure out something!

    You mentioned dopamine in your post and that’s one thing BH4 helps to create. It helps to maintain neurotransmitter balance and it’s a very key topic.

    The COMT gene will increase production of norepinephrine, dopamine and estrogen.

    Royal jelly is well know for it’s high BH4 content.

    Hope this helps!

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Thank you very much for such a comprehensive answer!

    I gravitate towards just eating the right food instead of supplementing. I have been taking Nutrient 950 by Pure Encapsulations with methylated forms of vitamins and haven’t been experiencing significant issues with it. At least not in short-term.

    I don’t think I have any major health issues related to methylation specifically. I have been diagnosed with a serious kidney condition (FSGS) in slightly less than a year ago, but it’s most likely not related. Overall, I was interested in maximization of my health and mental/physical performance. Specifically, I experience brain fog / fatigue occasionally and thought that I could improve it through better supplementation.

    Of all B vitamins I currently only take B1 (as it can potentially help with kidney conditions).

    Thank you for recommendation of royal jelly! Are there any other good sources?

    Also, in terms of food, given me situation, is it better to try obtaining B12 from such foods as liver, salmon, beef, sardines and mackerel and folate from such foods as liver, avocado, beets, asparagus, spinach, parsley, lentils and navy beans?

    Thanks a lot again!

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Are there any other implication for me? Are there any particular supplements or foods I should consider avoiding? Such as B5 and B6, for example?

    Istvan
    Participant
    Post count: 136

    Yes, you might have a problem with beans or any type of quinones. I want you to go into your 23andMe and get into your raw data by clicking on your on top right corner and selecting that option.

    You will see jump to a gene and SNP. Pick the cell on the right and copy the following SNPs individually and press Go.

    Rs5030868

    Rs1050757

    Write me back with the results of both SNPS that you get under Genotype.

    Will answer later. It’s bedtime here. Good night!

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Sure!

    Rs5030868: G
    Rs5030868: t

    Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!

    Istvan
    Participant
    Post count: 136

    You are safe Jack! These could have explained your serious kidney problems. I really want to help so I feel the best thing would be to either post your 23andMe results under the ‘Ask a Practitioner’ thread on the forum and tell them more about your kidney issues (because it’s nothing to play with) or I could move the thread myself if you wish.
    Good night!

    István

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Istvan, thank you very much for your concern and help!

    It is indeed a very serious condition that was completely unexpected as I was perfectly healthy and athletic before. In fact I am currently expecting genetic results done specifically for FSGS. However, it is unlikely that it will have any practical implications relating to treatment as the cause is unknown and this is why the treatment is also generic (but hardcore: prednisone, cyclosporine, etc).

    In case you think that there is still some opportunity to learn something new, I am all for it, let’s move the topic. Do I need to provide any additional details? Thank you very much again!

    Istvan
    Participant
    Post count: 136

    Hi Jack!

    Write down your health history and I will move this thread later on. Cynthia Smith is an expert in SNPs, Shawn Bean is the “guru” of hormonal health, Dr. Tim Jackson specializes in immunology and gut health, Dr. Andrew Rostenberg is the expert in methylation and Dr. Michael Gruttadauria specializes in head injuries, neurological symptoms. You will be in good hands.

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Istvan, how can I share it privately instead of posting it publicly? Thanks

    Cynthia Smith
    Participant
    Post count: 206

    Hi Jack, Please pick a Practitioner on MTHFRsupport or other forum. Then follow through. I would love to assist, as others would, although we are all busy. Its best to work with someone who knows your health history, medical testing and SNPs. Cynthia

    Jack
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    Hi Synthia, thanks! I am not sure how to pick a practitioner on mthfrsupport. Are you talking about those who consult online or medical doctors’ appointments. I seem so see the latter when I go to “find a practitioner”. Also, I am not sure what practitioner is the best in my case. Based on Istvan description, it might be of some value to consult with Dr. Tim Jackson as FSGS might be related to immune system (although my appointment with a rheumatologist proved that I don’t have any autoimmune issues). Would appreciate your advice, thanks!

    hardasnails1973
    Participant
    Post count: 33

    Jack,

    Have you been evaluated for Strumpell’s disease by your medical providers?

    I am also one of the practitioner here as well 🙂

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